harsens_rob (harsens_rob) wrote,

Poll Time! Surprise/Innocence

The Surprise & Innocence Double-Episode Super Poll!

There's an abundance of Buffy/Angel smoochies in Surprise. Your reaction?

-- Our choices are: Yay! or *rollseyes* or *shrug*

I'm going with a big, ol' shrug.

In this episode, Spike seems to be down with Drusilla's apocalypse plans.
In Becoming, though, he teams up with Buffy to save the world, delivering
a grand speech about how he doesn't want it to end. What's up?

Well, see it's like this ... "Spike's character(ization) is often wildly inconsistent(ly written)".

But in-universe, I think he was far more concerned with keeping Drusilla away from Angelus, and if
that took the end of the world, so be it. But more to the point, I also don't think that Spike ever
really took The Judge as a serious threat to the whole world. The guy did not have "I can drain
every person on the planet" written on him and I think Spike figured sooner or later somebody was
going to stop him, but in the meanwhile Dru would have her 'party' and love him for helping her.

In "Becoming" though, it was Angelus' plan, so that was automatically a strike against allowing it
to succeed, just out of spite if for no other reason. But also, Acathla really could have pulled it
off with the whole vortex thing in a way that made the Apocalypse far more of an imminent probability
than anything The Big Smurf tried.

The Judge tells Dru and Spike that they "stink of humanity". So, would his touch burn them?

Choices are: Yes, No, It would singe 'em....

I think it would have destroyed Spike outright, but I'm not sure about Dru. She might have escaped
with just some gnarly wounds. I'm not sure how much of 'humanity' is in her daffy head at any given
time. For he poll - I'm gonna go with Yes, as that's the best choice.

Let's go ahead and address one of the controversies of the episode. Buffy and Angel have sex for the
first time. Buffy's freshly 17, and they do so after having seen the new Big Bad up and doing Big Bad
things. Possibly not the smartest idea. Angel's a couple centuries old and has a history of slaughter,
rape, and killing puppies. Buffy's the Slayer, which forces her to grow up faster than her peers. She'll
also end up blaming herself, alone, for Angel losing his soul. On the scale below, select where you think
the power in the Buffy/Angel relationship lies at this point in time. Angel = 1; Buffy = 10.

Wow. That's a... question, alright....

While I think one would almost automatically choose Angel because of his age, experience and Buffy's
underaged-ness, I'm not sure that would be quite fair. Angel (through this point) has always played the
more subservient role to Buffy as she is the Slayer. And, while I think that Buffy isn't quite mature yet,
I also think that she was always much more clear and unambiguous about their relationship. Should he have
tried to resist more strongly and insistently?

Oh, yes. I won't dispute that. But, after decades of loneliness, can we really be so heartless as to blame
him for weakening when Buffy is right there, and clearly intending on consumating their relationship? How
much do we really expect of him when it comes to being such a lonely person and in love?

Where does the power lie? I really think it lies more with Buffy, despite their disparate ages. I'm going to
go with 7.

And to further address said controversy, do you consider the sex to be statutory rape on Angel's part?

Oh, sure, just throw us on top of that hornet's nest, why don'cha? I guess, I'm going to go with the
"Technically, it is" (I'm assuming CA age of consent is 18, like elsewhere), "but it doesn't bother me".

I always thought 18 was completely arbitrary, anyway.

Most heart-wrenching moment of the Innocence?

I went with the Angelus scene. That is effing brutal, and really, it kind of made me hate David a little bit,
even though it was just dialog he was reciting as an actor. He just did such a good job at being hateful that
I totally bought that he was a nasty prick.

Would it have been more effective for the Gypsies to let Jenny know about the happiness clause?

Yes. It was unforgivable for them to send her on a mission to keep Angel and Buffy apart, without disclosing
the consequences of failing. The curse itself was reprehensible, anyway, but the clause was completely petty
and dangerous for no other reason than revenge on an innocent (Liam had nothing to do with Angelus' actions, but
was made to pay the emotional price for them).

Would it have been more effective for the Gypsies to let Angel know about the happiness clause?

No. I know, you probably wouldn't expect that answer. But, with this question you have to go back to the gypsy's
viewpoint and the 'point' of the curse. Warning Angel not to be 'perfectly happy' would have made his suffering
something 'noble' ... he was sacrificing happiness in order to avoid Angelus' return. That wasn't really the
point of their curse - his suffering was the point. Giving him comfort that he was "doing this to protect every
one else" would have been in direct conflict with why they wanted him to feel his suffering in the first place.

Buffy and Giles turn their back on Jenny because of her failure to tell them who she is. Justified?

I say that it wasn't justified, but it is understandable. Jenny had been denied crucial information about her
mission. She could have revealed that she was on a mission, but she had been raised since childhood to believe
that Angel's pain was just. It is completely understandable, and to me forgivable, that she would have withheld
that information for her people. And she wanted so badly to make up for Angel's losing his soul through no fault
of hers (because she didn't know there was a happiness clause). None of this is her fault.

But feeling like "we don't know who she is" is also understandable. And, with the shock and hurt of Angel's
reversion due to her people's spells... I can forgive everyone for turning on her temporarily.

The star ratings for the two episodes:

Surprise: 3 stars (but I think it'll be more during review - 3.50 maybe)

Innocence: 4 stars (probably 4.25)

Tags: btvs, opinion

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